i beg to differ. my points had less to do with the way the AI handles tactics of its combat ships and diplomatic options than you seem to think. i do agree with your reply, that an AI engine that can handle tactics about as well as a human is a long way off, and the point about sensors is indeed partly a tactical issue. but it wasn't even central to my main observational suggestion. the set of points i was most conerned with primarily addressed the way diplomacy itself is structured: specifically, that the options are too limited and boil down to nothing more than agreements and treaties, rather than a simulation of meaningful communication. i'm sorry you missed that, and i admit it wasn't completely clear: in my own defense, i did admit that i was mentally meandering. i think Brad's done a bang-up job with the AI, and i'm confident he would continue to do so if SD decided to reimagine the nature and breadth of diplomatic options in the game.

In that case, the game mechanism should be tweaked to avoid planets being defended by sitting ducks

Currently, when a fleet attack a planet that is defended by ships that can't be fleeted, it is sometimes useful to split the attacking fleet and attack the planet 1 vs 1 , rotating the attacking ship, allowing to clean the planet defended in one turn, even if there is no space left on orbit before the attack. And you still have lots of movements points when refleeting your ships

I beg to differ, while realistically it may not be that easy to implement this is a videogame where gameplay is more important than realism. As for being able to monitor the space, it doesn't seem to far fetched considering you can easily make a ship that can see a couple parsecs around it.

In the case of having two planet in a solar system it would just need to do what civilization does, make them flatten out together.

At first it might be a little complex, but if the borders don't move or move only when special situations arise people will end up quickly adapting to them. Now if they expanded like influence borders do.. ya that could be a problem.

Yeah. I'd like to see Orbital Fleet Managers removed and planets defend as a fleet. Would make invading more difficult as is, and Orbital Fleet Managers are a cost of space.

As for the invasion maybe a planet should, based on its PLANETARY influence, but capped by its sensor rating, get a ring around the planet. Any ship entering that ring would need a RoP, unless it has a ring of its own in that ring. (If two civs share space- like in a split system, the ring is shared by both) Entering that ring without a RoP is either a diplo hit or war.

Starbase influence does not count at all for this.

I think these two things would prevent effective sneak attacks until late game.

I don't like the idea.

I have to confess that I prefer Civ4 over GalCiv, a lot.

But one of the things I hate in Civ4 is the autmatic beaming of units within enemy territory when declaring war. It's no fun at all.

Please don't copy this aspect of Civ4 - copy anything else!

How about putting declare war button to state your intentions the formal way, Though I think we should still be allowed sneak attacks which you could take a trade and diplomacy penalty with other civs. I mean after all being sneaky and underhanded is part of politics . It worked quite effectively in ww2, kinda funny tho getting declaration of war after enemy troops are already crossing your frontier lol just a thought. On a side note I also think its really important to have some type button to tell enemy to get his ships/bases out of your territory . Sorry if this has been beat to death but Im kinda new to forums please bear with me.   

Almost forgot I would also like a few dialogue options like Bribe,insult,threaten,copliment with a chance to affect relations based on your diplomatic ability,culture,influence and general standing in galaxy maybe . Man I didnt mean it to sound so complicated lol  

Good idea eoryn. I def like your "options " ideas as oppossed ro restrictions. I def think its kinda dum warping ships and slowing them down. Also cloaking could add a fun element to a game a cloaked commerce raider/scout ship reminds me of klingon bird of Prey heh

there is a declare war button in the diplomat screen

Ok, I'll make another stab at relevance here. If you think of Gal Civ as a Naval Sim, then all of the planets are tiny islands on a water world. The best you can do is defend a radius around the island, as has been suggested.

This means that any "borders" are both mutable and imaginary. In fact, when there is a war, all of the water is hostile territory, except where shore batteries and mines, etc. can give you SOME control.

A system where the control of the planets are in multiple hands, is, by nature, in contention, and is a war zone when any of the holders are at war. That is why I proposed that there be grey "territory." Imagine if the US held Hawaii, but the other islands were occupied by another, hostile, country. Where would you draw the border of the US?

Open water is just that, open. International territory. Not to be used to calculate total "ownership" of the world.

That being said, if you hold all of the planets, then you can be said to hold the area the solar system is in, but only to a certain radius. I would agree that it should be somewhat bigger than the sum of its parts, if there is no contention.

I'm not sure that stations should count at all. It may be that they could be used for force projection, and, so, aid the control of an occupied system. But if the stations count by themselves, why not count fleets? They are certainly more instrumental to holding an area.

The only way that you could be said to control an area of space, is if you can put ships there and your enemies cannot. In this sense, range is much more an issue than influence.

borders are both mutable and imaginary on land as well except when it is formed by a river.



this is true but you can push that radius out.





the only base that should affect a true border should be the military one. the others have their own areas of effect.

i have a stupid radical thought.


why not make the whole negotiable.

in other words how fast you can go through my territory.

where you can travail in my territory like no closer than 5 spaces to not at all.

and as many of these ideas that can be negotiated by the AI. if that is even possible.


one other thing i would like to see is a per turn price/tribute.

whoops didnt know there was declare war button I only have
Galciv2 DL  

I guess its all Butterfly Effect, a change in any one dynamic can/will produce major and/or unpredictable changes elsewhere. Let's break this down to simpler components. There is the presumed assumption that Suicide levels are not difficult enough due to the use of sneak attacks, which the AI is unable to properly use or defend against. In response, the development team has presented a Right of Passage treaty that will drop non-treaty races to 1pc/wk and after declaration of war, or first attack, all player ships are moved from AI territory. While players like the idea of Right of Passage, they don't like the engine nerfing or "teleportation" of ships. Also, players want to keep sneak attacks as a viable option for use, as they are "realistic" in form.

Examples of where RoP limits would be bad (extreme example): a Gigantic Map with 2 players, relations status: at war, thus RoP cannot be used. Assume that each race controls half of the map (7.5 sectors) From the starting border of the enemy race, it could take up to 112.5 weeks to traverse the territory or 2.34 game years, an ungodly and extremely tedious amount of time. This is the basis of where Large and above map users draw their complaints on the tedium imposed by this limitation and also complaints about the overall engine nerfing.

Best suggestions submitted so far for 'solving' sneak attack and speed issues:

Diplomatic Repercussions should be VERY high for having military ships in the territory of another race; basically a triple minus in relations, unless allied. {i think this one in particular is a necessity}. Also attacks without a formal declaration of war could result in lowered relations across the board.

Territorial Control set at a radius from a planet or controlled star system where the full effects of the RoP could be used. {I happen to really like this one, doesn't limit the cultural border for flipping planets but limits ship placement and other restrictions without radical changes to current game play}

Increase Espionage Usefulness in that data is not presented immediately on a selected object as currently is and that espionage must be undertaken to gain such information. This changes player strategy as they will think twice about attacking a world or ship they truly know nothing about, it also dramatically increases the importance of the Espionage ability (both SA and normal)

Scaling Speed/Range that larger maps have 'cheaper' engines to offset the length of real life time it takes in waiting for a ship to reach a destination. {I suggest however only a small reduction in Size/Cost, mostly for balance purposes.}

These suggestions, most of which have been stated prior, are generally only improvements on CURRENT game features and do not artificially or in an iron-handed manner hurt either advanced, moderate, or new players but should only add new layers of complexity to the game.

Thank you for taking the time to read it. I know it was big and I find myself to be guilty of often skipping the big ones. I do wish more people would read that post, as I think its got more options and better playability then most of the other ideas I've seen here. I really do believe there are simple ways to solve it, which add to the game immensely and open up more doors, rather then lame gamey solutions that just restrict options.

The cloaking could add immensely to something like this. However, you would only need a new component to add, a cloaking device. And then you'd need another sensor component to detect them. Simple, yet could seriously add to a game like this, especially if there now becomes a need to risk border intrusions. But even that is just a random side thought of adding options rather then restricting them.

Just make borders a set number of parsecs around your planets. Can be voted on at the UP. Can be an option in the settings. This can not be too complicated to work with on a coding level; at least not that I can fathom.

Then make it so you can attack people in your territory, who don't have right of passage, and give a pop up with an option of 1) attack (declare war), 2 diplomatic ejection. Simple solution. They can run the gauntlet. They can be caught. It can start a war, or it can be like deporting someone or how diplomats get ejected in real life. You have to catch them while in your territory but they risk a long trip home or even war for doing it. Reasonably realistic, easy to code, and when you put some thought into it, it opens up a lot of potential additional playability options, rather then restrictions.